Am I wrong of being suspicious of Irenaus suspicions? I think that he is too worried about remaining by his master's room. He must know that neither Felix nor Iusta need a servant at their feet at all times. Specially Felix.
I also think that Urbana knows what is happening and that she is actually protecting her friend Iusta. Love how she sent Irenaus back to bed.
But Irenaus is suspicious and he shouldn't have to be. Intriguing.
This makes me believe more than ever that Irenaus is on Titus payroll.
In a case like this, custom was to keep a close eye on the widow for ten months to be extra-super-specially sure whether she produced a male heir. Or, rather, the reverse: with no male heir, the widow might want to make extra-super-specially sure that any posthumous offspring would be recognised as legitimate. That could be one of a loyal servant's concerns.
Shenaningans can be done here. Alexander's family patriarch died in Herculaneum along with his heir (Alexander's father) and several other adult males of his family.
Alexander for the time being is officially dead, which means that his cousins in Alexandria have inherited everything, as long as Alexander do not have a child (male or female does not matter under Roman law as far as I can see). It is in Alexander's cousin's best interest to have Iusta find another husband as soon as possible and before the 10 month waiting period has expired. That way, any child of Iusta will legally belong to her new husband and thus cannot inherit.
While Felix is considered family, he is not. Although probably he has many cousins in Alexander's family as well, since it seems both families had intermarried with the time.
Iusta's inheritance by her father is hers without qualifications. The only requirement was that she get married to someone of note before three months had passed after her father's death. She was married and is now a widow and the condition was met long before Vesuvius' untimely tantrum.
Her father's interests in Rome while not the bulk of her fortune, which now is lost, still is considerable. Even if it only comprises the house in Rome, that house is worth a lot. Rome's real estate prices at the time were comparable to today's prices for a brownstone house in Manhattan. Specially since the neighborhood has gutters in the street. The house has internal plumbing and it even has its own private toilet.
Iusta can live from the earnings by renting the house and its commercial fronts, or she could sell it for a small fortune and start anew in Alexandria.
True: males preferred, females can inherit. I'd meant (but didn't make it clear) that even if she had a dozen daughters and the inheritance could be safely passed on within the family for a generation, there would still be hope held out for a son.
What you meant was that Iusta could have three daughters and her fourth child is a boy. Baby boy inherit's everything, otherwise the eldest daughter does.
Love that. I think that this is the first time that I've seen both of them so relaxed and happy in a long time. I hope the drama that is about to befall do not separate them.
I remain flummoxed about the print size! I'm trying to stay consistent with the new chapter entries. That TV-14:S page would have to be retooled into a new shape :)
Irenaeus may be reliant on Felix as de facto master at the moment, but his loyalties...? Tense.
Irenaeus is loyal to Mus' family. He knows that Felix is family and that is why he is willing to look on Felix as the master. But if he is a slave and Titus has offered freedom + money, then he becomes Titus man.
I know the whole point of the story (awesome volcano aside) was them getting together, but... It just feels kind of weird? I dunno. Maybe it's taken so long in getting to this point that I've forgotten about their initial attraction.
I never though that the story was about these two getting together. For a while I though that either Felix or Iusta, if not both of them, were slated for a fiery volcano death.
Like you I am glad that they are together. I hope this situation remains and that the dramatic moments that are going to befall them will help them become a stronger couple.
Well, I mean... I've always assumed it was Felix's story, and Iusta's story was important but just incidental to Felix's. Or something. I just feel like I missed a whole lot of the narrative in the last few pages. :x
Don't get me wrong. I always felt that this was Felix's story as well. In a way Felix's name has been a cruel joke by the gods since up to this time his life has been anything but happy.
The only thing missing from the narrative is when Felix started having feelings for Iusta. Iusta was always interested in Felix. She actually married Alexander as a way for her to escape her attraction to him, since the seer told her that she was going to lose everything if she followed him.
Well, she did follow him and saved her life but lost most of her fortune. And now that her mundane concerns are taken care off, courtesy of Vesuvius, she can now act on her feelings towards Felix.
I guess that Felix in the days after being reunited with his family has developed tender feelings towards this young woman who is acting as a mother to his daughter. That is the narrative that you have not seen.
Are you thinking weird as in, it's weird he would so enthusiastically pull her into his bed while they're still grieving over others; or weird that it's the culmination of a great love story? I don't know that I could say Felix would consider himself in a great love story. He got hugely distracted by at least three other women along the way.
Haha, well, yes. I reread the comic recently and had a 'shit Felix is like forty-something. He looks pretty good for forty-something' moment at one point. Hum, how to explain what I meant without sounding mean... because I'm not. Hum. Well, a lot of your characters have a 'same expression' tendency. I've always written it off as just being related to a more reserved historical period, but it makes it hard to read the characters sometimes. (Like, on these rows, for example, Urbana and Iren's expressions don't change at all throughout their conversation, even when Urbana fumbles what she's saying.) It sort of, I dunno, sucks personality out of the characters? The main (living) exception to this is Damon, and he's a much more interesting character for it. (You can take this with some measure of salt, I guess, since I tend to draw in a more anime/manga inspired fashion and that lends itself to more exaggerated expressions.) That all being said, because of this, it's more noticeable when Felix specifically *does* react facially to characters. And he tended to react to that string of fine ladies he got distracted by along the way. But Iusta... not so much, post-volcano, at least. I know they've gone through a lot, and they're trying to regroup and move on, but... hrm. It's like the way the plot is pushing forward quickly from row to row has left out any real interaction between Felix and Iusta. It (to me at least) hasn't felt like Felix is taking her along for any reason aside from familial obligation. And so to go from 'we need to talk' to 'talking euphemistically' in a handful of rows made me go "Wait, what?" in reaction. I mean, I understand sex being used as a way to blot out the grieving for a moment, but it just felt out of left field to me. (And what about his feelings regarding those other women?)
But, that was just my reaction to things and I doubt anyone else felt the same way.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to throw myself under this conveniently passing chariot. *fling*
Allow me to join this conversation regarding Felix and Iusta love story.
Iusta has always been interested in Felix since the time they met. To the point that she actually wanted him to be her husband. But I guess that what was a teenager's infatuation for a handsome man had blossomed to love somewhere in the way to this day.
Felix's interest towards Iusta is more nuanced. So far he has only loved two women in his life: Lolla, his wife in the legions, and Iusta. He loved Lolla and was hit hard when she died. Took some time for him to recover as well. I do not doubt that he liked Spendusa, but I feel it was more of a "friends with benefits" thing than a romantic love. Then Spendusa got pregnant and he took responsibility for her and their child. Elisa, he probably looked at her more like a sister. Elisa was the one who was in love with him. They shared on kiss on the Venus shrine, something that he was probably sorry about. Until it was announced that they were going to marry. He probably shrugged mentally and started to look at Elisa as a woman instead of a sister. Iusta, she is different. He has been alongside her for the most time. First as a bodyguard, later as a short lived husband prospect (although Vitalis had to actually bribe him to marry her and of course Iusta never knew), later as Alexander's wife and later widow. Always as a protector. He has seen her mature from willfully rebellious teenager to the young matron she is right now. He has also always liked her, said so since the time they met. But he very likely stopped, or tried to stop, showing any interest in her since her marriage. Felix is a very loyal person. To the point that he sometimes goes against his own interests, see Felix's current Flavian problem. So Felix saw this young pretty girl mature into this young beautiful woman, who very likely took care of him while he was emotionally weak after being hit with the loss of his entire family. Iusta saw this man, who has always been there as her protector, in a more intimate moment as a caring, loving father and family man. Seeing him for the first time as something more than the deadly cold ex-soldier he usually portrays. So it is quite normal that a passing attraction between them had blossomed into love during a very emotional time for both of them. The only part that Klio skipped was the entire time they spent in the refugee camp in Misenum. I only wish we knew how long it was, but I feel that it was several weeks in order to give them time to peacefully mourn their loved ones before facing life again.
I should maybe stay out of it and let you folks talk :D
The only part that Klio skipped was the entire time they spent in the refugee camp in Misenum. I only wish we knew how long it was, but I feel that it was several weeks in order to give them time to peacefully mourn their loved ones before facing life again.
I need to remember that just because I took a month's hiatus, doesn't mean the readers see a month of story time reflected in the gap between chapters.
There should be something I can do about showing that.
U can always show a Sunday page with their time at Misenum, with Iusta adjusting to being a new mother and dealing with Felix, who very likely got drunk a time or two.
Thank you for the thoughtful discussion. Here are some thoughts in return. I don't want to hijack the conversation with voice-of-the-auteur, because it's not just what I intend but also what ends up in the panels and how they are read; so I'll try not to expound too much.
I reread the comic recently and had a 'shit Felix is like forty-something. He looks pretty good for forty-something' moment at one point.
He's only twenty-something. He and Domitian are contemporaries, both teenagers at the same time. (Felix enlisted before he could properly shave, and was still growing out of uniforms until he passed six feet tall and his height was remarked on.) Titus is 40-something at this point; There was enough of a gap between Domitian and Titus that they wouldn't have interacted much as "brothers growing up together" (it's a gap between siblings that I have personal experience with!). I hope closing the gap between Felix and Iusta a little helps.
Also, Felix says thank you for saying he looks pretty good, but he hopes he still looks pretty good for twenty-something.
Urbana and Iren's expressions don't change at all throughout their conversation, even when Urbana fumbles what she's saying.
I thought I'd really nailed the facial expressions in this one :D True fact: I've been thinking about character facial expressions all month. I look at guides to drawing expressions and think, "do people really do that?" I know it's always been something that should be stronger in the art; in the earlier comics it wasn't something I could get a grip on (sometimes literally, struggling with the hand injury), plus I guess I went too far in--intentionally--making the characters "more reserved" types. I personally am reserved with facial expressions, and sometimes have to remind myself that other people smile using teeth and all that sort of thing. Digression: I recently had a boss who complained that he couldn't read me and that me telling him what I thought about something wasn't sufficient; he wanted me to show stronger facial expressions of "happiness" and "excitement." You can imagine how difficult it is to have a boss constantly telling you that your face isn't exaggerated enough for him. I'd try to compensate and I guess came across as insincere, because he disliked that too. I ended up feeling like he wanted a pantomime/minstrel show. But, TL;DR: My idea of someone with their emotions painted on their face (Damon, Domitian, Vibius, Spendusa) may still be very restrained.
It (to me at least) hasn't felt like Felix is taking her along for any reason aside from familial obligation.
Obligation. Lust? Piety? Obedience? Lust?
Sex, love, and devotion aren't in one box for him, but maybe that needs to be clearer. He's devoted and kind to his favourite prostitute (she's waiting for her cue to go onstage shortly), but she's not the love of his life. Maybe there needs to be more expression of, "The gods say we belong together. Here we are. So now are we supposed to be soul mates?"
(And what about his feelings regarding those other women?)
That won't stay unaddressed.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to throw myself under this conveniently passing chariot. *fling*
"(And what about his feelings regarding those other women?)
That won't stay unaddressed."
Klio, allow me to be pretentious and say: don't.
Showing Felix's feelings towards all the other women in his life, while nice probably fells under the heading of filler. At this time in the story it is a moot question. He is in love with Iusta. The other women left, not because he wanted but because life happened in the form of a pirate attack and a volcano.
If I read your comments correctly, now this is the story of Felix and Iusta, the couple. Felix reminiscing of the loves of his life is both a disservice to Iusta and so much unlike Felix. So far I've seen Felix mourn the passing of his loved ones, but then he just turn around and moves on with his life. Never forgetting them but not dwelling on what could have been either. Something that is exemplified with the burial urn of "Alexander". He has mourned him. He very likely cried over his death. But that is behind now. All he wants to do now is to perform his last duty to him and bury him with the rest of his family in Alexandria. That is what I feel is typical Felix.
He probably spends some devotion time in the house's altar and pray for his departed loved ones and then face what the day has to bring. Iusta is probably the same, although I don't have many examples of her facing adversity unlike Felix.
Fear not. "They won't stay unaddressed" won't mean "long angst sessions with poetry, walking head-covered through grey shadows." Probably not even "long drunken bender sitting on the floor in underwear." Felix already did that once, and it didn't improve things. His core is harder now.
But, you know, not so hard a core that the hammer shatters when used.
I may be thinking of humans too much in a materials-science sort of way.
Iusta has reacted up to now out of a scramble for self-protection, so getting to make a personal, emotional choice--turning to Felix--would be new for her...
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no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 05:10 am (UTC)I also think that Urbana knows what is happening and that she is actually protecting her friend Iusta. Love how she sent Irenaus back to bed.
But Irenaus is suspicious and he shouldn't have to be. Intriguing.
This makes me believe more than ever that Irenaus is on Titus payroll.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 12:49 pm (UTC)If the emperor did hire eyes inside the house, that might not be a bad thing, right? Except for the whole wanting-to-live-one's-life-in-peace aspect.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 02:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 03:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 04:11 pm (UTC)Alexander for the time being is officially dead, which means that his cousins in Alexandria have inherited everything, as long as Alexander do not have a child (male or female does not matter under Roman law as far as I can see). It is in Alexander's cousin's best interest to have Iusta find another husband as soon as possible and before the 10 month waiting period has expired. That way, any child of Iusta will legally belong to her new husband and thus cannot inherit.
While Felix is considered family, he is not. Although probably he has many cousins in Alexander's family as well, since it seems both families had intermarried with the time.
Iusta's inheritance by her father is hers without qualifications. The only requirement was that she get married to someone of note before three months had passed after her father's death. She was married and is now a widow and the condition was met long before Vesuvius' untimely tantrum.
Her father's interests in Rome while not the bulk of her fortune, which now is lost, still is considerable. Even if it only comprises the house in Rome, that house is worth a lot. Rome's real estate prices at the time were comparable to today's prices for a brownstone house in Manhattan. Specially since the neighborhood has gutters in the street. The house has internal plumbing and it even has its own private toilet.
Iusta can live from the earnings by renting the house and its commercial fronts, or she could sell it for a small fortune and start anew in Alexandria.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 04:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 05:15 pm (UTC)Should I leave? Never!
Date: 2015-08-19 05:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 11:25 am (UTC)Urbana knows. Irenaeus strongly suspects. This is going to make the household a little tense.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 12:56 pm (UTC)Irenaeus may be reliant on Felix as de facto master at the moment, but his loyalties...? Tense.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-19 01:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 04:43 am (UTC)My brain is defective.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 05:45 am (UTC)Like you I am glad that they are together. I hope this situation remains and that the dramatic moments that are going to befall them will help them become a stronger couple.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 06:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 07:02 am (UTC)The only thing missing from the narrative is when Felix started having feelings for Iusta. Iusta was always interested in Felix. She actually married Alexander as a way for her to escape her attraction to him, since the seer told her that she was going to lose everything if she followed him.
Well, she did follow him and saved her life but lost most of her fortune. And now that her mundane concerns are taken care off, courtesy of Vesuvius, she can now act on her feelings towards Felix.
I guess that Felix in the days after being reunited with his family has developed tender feelings towards this young woman who is acting as a mother to his daughter. That is the narrative that you have not seen.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 07:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 08:57 am (UTC)Hum, how to explain what I meant without sounding mean... because I'm not. Hum. Well, a lot of your characters have a 'same expression' tendency. I've always written it off as just being related to a more reserved historical period, but it makes it hard to read the characters sometimes. (Like, on these rows, for example, Urbana and Iren's expressions don't change at all throughout their conversation, even when Urbana fumbles what she's saying.) It sort of, I dunno, sucks personality out of the characters? The main (living) exception to this is Damon, and he's a much more interesting character for it. (You can take this with some measure of salt, I guess, since I tend to draw in a more anime/manga inspired fashion and that lends itself to more exaggerated expressions.)
That all being said, because of this, it's more noticeable when Felix specifically *does* react facially to characters. And he tended to react to that string of fine ladies he got distracted by along the way. But Iusta... not so much, post-volcano, at least. I know they've gone through a lot, and they're trying to regroup and move on, but... hrm. It's like the way the plot is pushing forward quickly from row to row has left out any real interaction between Felix and Iusta. It (to me at least) hasn't felt like Felix is taking her along for any reason aside from familial obligation.
And so to go from 'we need to talk' to 'talking euphemistically' in a handful of rows made me go "Wait, what?" in reaction. I mean, I understand sex being used as a way to blot out the grieving for a moment, but it just felt out of left field to me. (And what about his feelings regarding those other women?)
But, that was just my reaction to things and I doubt anyone else felt the same way.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to throw myself under this conveniently passing chariot. *fling*
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 12:42 pm (UTC)Iusta has always been interested in Felix since the time they met. To the point that she actually wanted him to be her husband. But I guess that what was a teenager's infatuation for a handsome man had blossomed to love somewhere in the way to this day.
Felix's interest towards Iusta is more nuanced. So far he has only loved two women in his life: Lolla, his wife in the legions, and Iusta.
He loved Lolla and was hit hard when she died. Took some time for him to recover as well.
I do not doubt that he liked Spendusa, but I feel it was more of a "friends with benefits" thing than a romantic love. Then Spendusa got pregnant and he took responsibility for her and their child.
Elisa, he probably looked at her more like a sister. Elisa was the one who was in love with him. They shared on kiss on the Venus shrine, something that he was probably sorry about. Until it was announced that they were going to marry. He probably shrugged mentally and started to look at Elisa as a woman instead of a sister.
Iusta, she is different. He has been alongside her for the most time. First as a bodyguard, later as a short lived husband prospect (although Vitalis had to actually bribe him to marry her and of course Iusta never knew), later as Alexander's wife and later widow. Always as a protector. He has seen her mature from willfully rebellious teenager to the young matron she is right now. He has also always liked her, said so since the time they met. But he very likely stopped, or tried to stop, showing any interest in her since her marriage. Felix is a very loyal person. To the point that he sometimes goes against his own interests, see Felix's current Flavian problem.
So Felix saw this young pretty girl mature into this young beautiful woman, who very likely took care of him while he was emotionally weak after being hit with the loss of his entire family. Iusta saw this man, who has always been there as her protector, in a more intimate moment as a caring, loving father and family man. Seeing him for the first time as something more than the deadly cold ex-soldier he usually portrays.
So it is quite normal that a passing attraction between them had blossomed into love during a very emotional time for both of them. The only part that Klio skipped was the entire time they spent in the refugee camp in Misenum. I only wish we knew how long it was, but I feel that it was several weeks in order to give them time to peacefully mourn their loved ones before facing life again.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 02:24 pm (UTC)The only part that Klio skipped was the entire time they spent in the refugee camp in Misenum. I only wish we knew how long it was, but I feel that it was several weeks in order to give them time to peacefully mourn their loved ones before facing life again.
I need to remember that just because I took a month's hiatus, doesn't mean the readers see a month of story time reflected in the gap between chapters.
There should be something I can do about showing that.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 02:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 03:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 01:28 pm (UTC)More thoughts to come.
I always appreciate feedback. You don't sound mean at all. It's helpful to me.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 02:17 pm (UTC)I reread the comic recently and had a 'shit Felix is like forty-something. He looks pretty good for forty-something' moment at one point.
He's only twenty-something. He and Domitian are contemporaries, both teenagers at the same time. (Felix enlisted before he could properly shave, and was still growing out of uniforms until he passed six feet tall and his height was remarked on.) Titus is 40-something at this point; There was enough of a gap between Domitian and Titus that they wouldn't have interacted much as "brothers growing up together" (it's a gap between siblings that I have personal experience with!). I hope closing the gap between Felix and Iusta a little helps.
Also, Felix says thank you for saying he looks pretty good, but he hopes he still looks pretty good for twenty-something.
Urbana and Iren's expressions don't change at all throughout their conversation, even when Urbana fumbles what she's saying.
I thought I'd really nailed the facial expressions in this one :D True fact: I've been thinking about character facial expressions all month. I look at guides to drawing expressions and think, "do people really do that?" I know it's always been something that should be stronger in the art; in the earlier comics it wasn't something I could get a grip on (sometimes literally, struggling with the hand injury), plus I guess I went too far in--intentionally--making the characters "more reserved" types. I personally am reserved with facial expressions, and sometimes have to remind myself that other people smile using teeth and all that sort of thing. Digression: I recently had a boss who complained that he couldn't read me and that me telling him what I thought about something wasn't sufficient; he wanted me to show stronger facial expressions of "happiness" and "excitement." You can imagine how difficult it is to have a boss constantly telling you that your face isn't exaggerated enough for him. I'd try to compensate and I guess came across as insincere, because he disliked that too. I ended up feeling like he wanted a pantomime/minstrel show. But, TL;DR: My idea of someone with their emotions painted on their face (Damon, Domitian, Vibius, Spendusa) may still be very restrained.
It (to me at least) hasn't felt like Felix is taking her along for any reason aside from familial obligation.
Obligation. Lust? Piety? Obedience? Lust?
Sex, love, and devotion aren't in one box for him, but maybe that needs to be clearer. He's devoted and kind to his favourite prostitute (she's waiting for her cue to go onstage shortly), but she's not the love of his life. Maybe there needs to be more expression of, "The gods say we belong together. Here we are. So now are we supposed to be soul mates?"
(And what about his feelings regarding those other women?)
That won't stay unaddressed.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to throw myself under this conveniently passing chariot. *fling*
Ow, no, don't do that :)
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 02:42 pm (UTC)That won't stay unaddressed."
Klio, allow me to be pretentious and say: don't.
Showing Felix's feelings towards all the other women in his life, while nice probably fells under the heading of filler. At this time in the story it is a moot question. He is in love with Iusta. The other women left, not because he wanted but because life happened in the form of a pirate attack and a volcano.
If I read your comments correctly, now this is the story of Felix and Iusta, the couple. Felix reminiscing of the loves of his life is both a disservice to Iusta and so much unlike Felix. So far I've seen Felix mourn the passing of his loved ones, but then he just turn around and moves on with his life. Never forgetting them but not dwelling on what could have been either. Something that is exemplified with the burial urn of "Alexander". He has mourned him. He very likely cried over his death. But that is behind now. All he wants to do now is to perform his last duty to him and bury him with the rest of his family in Alexandria. That is what I feel is typical Felix.
He probably spends some devotion time in the house's altar and pray for his departed loved ones and then face what the day has to bring. Iusta is probably the same, although I don't have many examples of her facing adversity unlike Felix.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 03:42 pm (UTC)But, you know, not so hard a core that the hammer shatters when used.
I may be thinking of humans too much in a materials-science sort of way.
Iusta has reacted up to now out of a scramble for self-protection, so getting to make a personal, emotional choice--turning to Felix--would be new for her...
no subject
Date: 2015-08-20 03:57 pm (UTC)Iusta is probably the only one who can penetrate it.
no subject
Date: 2015-08-21 04:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-08-25 10:37 pm (UTC)--Never.
*wibbles* That was moving! And bittersweet, since we know events are afoot that will make their relationship difficult.